[00:00:00] It’s Okay to Be Weird

Dr. Julie Watson: one of the things that’s been very validating is It’s okay to be weird. We like weird stuff because it’s weird things that gets us excited. I’ve absolutely loved when I stopped masking, my weirdness has come out more, and it’s allowed me to really lean into my artistic side more.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: We are Moms Unhinged, a nationally touring standup comedy show. Join us in our podcast as we explore everything from motherhood, midlife crisis, marriage, divorce, online dating, menopause and other things that irritate us. Hello everyone, and welcome to Moms Unhinged, the podcast. I am your host, Andrea Marie, and I am on the road this week and I am here visiting my longtime friend Dr. Julie Watson. We are recording from her apartment in separate rooms in New York. So welcome. Thank you.

Dr. Julie Watson: It’s good to be here. It’s

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: it’s good to be here. It’s good to be here in your apartment. So I am super excited to dive into today’s episode because I think this will resonate with like, a lot of people. Where to even start? Actually, let’s just start with a little bit of your bio because you are not one of our Moms Unhinged comedians, but I think you should be. But you are very funny. You’re a storyteller. You are a a media psychologist. You recently got your PhD. You have so many things that you have done all throughout your life, e- everywhere from character clubs. Now you’re getting into working with the aging population, so it’s just… which kind of fits with maybe your ADHD diagnosis.

Dr. Julie Watson: Yeah, perhaps. I, yeah, I think that, you know, when I look at my experience, it’s always been this spinning like a spinning top. What’s been the sh- the shiny object? And it started out even as a kid, I was like, “Ah, I love music promotions.” And so I went down that, and I did that for a while and did some really cool things in that area. And then it was I got a job in funeral homes, and I was like, “Ah, I love this space.” And it was re- it was really cool. And then it was I worked for a tech company, and it was all these different areas, and then a lot with kids. And then my clinical practice as a psychotherapist. And it was in the last couple years that things started coming together because I looked at the through line. And the thing that’s always been really passionate for me is I want people to feel seen, heard, and valued, especially those that feel unconsidered. A lot of that is in the aging community. When I had my practice for a long time it was, like, early adolescence, the tween stage, and that’s moved on to this place where now so many of us are in sandwich parenting.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Huh

Dr. Julie Watson: Where I’m at now, media psychologist, social gerontologist, and I design for how we perceive and experience aging.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah. Yeah, I love it so much, and you’ve done s- such a variety thing. I forgot about the funeral homes. Oh my gosh. I didn’t think… It’s such a wild variety.

Dr. Julie Watson: It, you know what? It makes for really fun party conversations when people are like, “What do you do?” I’m like, “I don’t know. Why don’t you throw something out? Let me tell you if I haven’t done it.”

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: It’s easier to

Dr. Julie Watson: it’s easier to narrow out what I haven’t done than what I have done in life.

[00:03:43] “I Thought I Just Had to Fit In”

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: So true. So true. We were talking a little bit about ADHD and how that came through. You always knew, but it was more of a confirmation. What was that like actually getting that confirmation?

Dr. Julie Watson: Honestly, it was a relief. So it was about 10 years ago, and I grew up in a time where I think for many, I’m Gen X, and I think there’s Gen X and older millennials especially women, we were not diagnosed because it was seen in growing up in the ’70s and ’80s as it was primarily hyperactive boys. So for a lot of girls, it was internalized and became, “Let me achieve. Let me…” Either we’re achieving and we’re doing all these things, or we’re becoming risk-takers fighting the system. And so there wasn’t a lot of space for this. And I just remember my report cards always saying I talk too much she can’t sit down. Even here, I’ve actually adjusted my position probably five times since we started talking because I can’t sit still. So I held that, and I just kept thinking this is just the energy I have, and I have

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Huh.

Dr. Julie Watson: And so about 10 years ago when perimenopause started and moving into menopause, where I was like, “Something just feels different.” And I knew my dad had ADHD. When he was a kid, my grandma would write grocery lists one item at a time to send him out to the grocery store, so it would take a whole day. So I knew that it ran in my family, and I finally went, and there was a lot of relief in there because I felt like there was something wrong. I actually thought maybe I’m getting early dementia with brain fog. And then people are like maybe it’s menopause.” And then there’s just all these different things that come in. And when I… It made sense when I started looking at it

[00:05:25] Midlife Is a Category 10 Shit Storm

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah. Yeah, it’s kinda interesting ’cause I’ve heard a lot of women getting diagnosed in their mid-life with menopause and all of that layered on top of everything, and it’s gotta be, I don’t know, it’s it’s gotta be challenging to even know how to treat that or, how to treat that amongst all the other things we have going on.

Dr. Julie Watson: Yeah, it’s how would I say? It’s layered for a few things. One, it hasn’t necessarily received the attention. A lot of women were, like, diagnosed with anxiety, so they’ve held that of, “I feel anxious,” or, “I feel this, and so I just keep pushing through, and I’m gonna… Or I’m gonna sh- show people that I can do something.” And so there hasn’t been a lot of research into it. This is also a time where there’s hormonal changes. You’re navigating things with your parents, with your kids. You’re working. There’s relationship shifts. There’s all these things happening in midlife, and it feels the best way I can say it is like a category 10 shit storm. It- that’s what it feels like

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: was, I… Yeah.

Dr. Julie Watson: because… And so to pull a piece out, it’s like people kept saying, “Meditate more. Do this,” and I’m like, “I can only meditate so much.” And there’s medication options, but medication becomes challenging at this time of life because you have other health considerations. And so the m- medication can raise your heart rate and your blood pressure, so you’re like, how do you manage it? And it, yeah, it’s really, it’s complicated, and it’s layered at times.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah, for sure. For sure. And probably a little bit misunderstood, under-researched as many women’s problems are. Like you said, it just did feel like it was a, teenage boy problem that you would just throw Ritalin at or something like that.

Dr. Julie Watson: Yeah. Yeah. I think there’s still some ideas around that. Here’s what I find is fascinating, because there’s this idea That there’s a neuronormative space, that there is something normal. I don’t subscribe to that. I think we are all neurospicy, neurodiverse, however you wanna say that. It is a spectrum. What we are finding is more adult women are being diagnosed. I think I read a Times article once, it was like 61% of women are being diagnosed in adulthood with ADHD just now, because now they have the tools for that, but there aren’t the resources. So it’s, you have to find your own way to navigate it

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: And we’re just so busy with all the things we have to… like you said, we’re taking care of our aging parents and our kids are, needing s- help with launching their own lives at this time. It’s just, it’s a lot. It’s a lot to deal with.

Dr. Julie Watson: Yeah. It is. Yeah.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: And then you, on top of all of that, got a PhD in the middle of it.

Dr. Julie Watson: Yes. It’s so funny because I think when people think about ADHD, they think about the being inattentive, either inattentive or hyperactive. The things that I have found is that – you get hyper-focused and fixed on things, or you’re very achievement oriented and you take on a lot.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Huh.

Dr. Julie Watson: I tend to do, is I really need this degree or I need to do this. And so then I jumped in and I did that and moved. And this… I think ADHD is a series of ands this and this. And it becomes our way of coping because with ADHD, we’re, we have a dopamine deficit. Lower in dopamine. What we look for is that hit of, “Oh, that feels so good. Let me go after that further.” And that’s how we start to do all those things.

[00:09:07] What If You’d Understood Yourself Earlier?

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Oh, that’s so interesting. Yeah. Do you feel like you wish you knew earlier in your life? Do you think that would have changed anything for you?

Dr. Julie Watson: Yes and no. I think would it have changed things in my life? Probably not. I’ve always been the one, I’m gonna chase the next thing, and that’s that adrenaline. Think knowing would have changed that.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Huh

Dr. Julie Watson: I’ve lived a lot of places, I… A lot of school, a lot of different activities and interests. They all give me that dopamine, that, that rush of excitement, and I love them all. That would not have changed whether I knew or not.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah.

Dr. Julie Watson: What I think would have changed, and I think this is something we don’t talk about, with ADHD, there’s a higher rate of rejection sensitivity. And so we constantly second-guess ourselves, or we replay a conversation we had 10 years ago and we’re like, ” Ah, I must have done something wrong.” We hold a lot of guilt and a lot of shame, but we internalize it. And I think had I known that I had ADHD and that was part of it, I think it would’ve changed how I felt about myself in situations. I might have been bolder, or maybe I would’ve been quieter, or just had a different sense of confidence.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah. That’s interesting. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, do you think it’s, do you think it’s changed how you showed up as a mom? Do you think that kinda-

Dr. Julie Watson: It’d be great to say that my ADHD is why I was weird, but I think I was weird from the, the mo- weird parent any- I I totally own my Juliness as a parent. I don’t, I never subscribed to a conventional way of doing things.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: No, you don’t

Dr. Julie Watson: so I don’t think it influenced that. I think what it did, how it did influence I’m very empathetic and I was anyways, but I was more empathetic with my kids. It doesn’t, didn’t mean that I didn’t lose it. At times I did, but I felt like I was more empathetic when I saw something. I’m like, “Let’s pause and let’s figure out what’s going on.” Or it was really good about redirection, and I do think that it I’m gonna say it helped, but my kids might have a different perspective. Maybe it hindered, maybe a little help and hinder, is that I was always wanting to find something new and exciting for us to do. And sometimes like it would’ve been nice just to relax, and we did that too. But I do think it helped to show them a different lens of the world because I was always craving something more.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah. Yeah, I would say your kids are pretty adventurous and also very self-confident and, I think… I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s… It’s hard to know is that part parenting? Is that part, is… ‘Cause all of it shapes how we show up.

Dr. Julie Watson: Yeah, I think it’s one piece of it. Is it all of it? Nothing is all of it.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah.

Dr. Julie Watson: Its one piece of it. So does it influence it? Sure. As do a million other things

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah. So let’s dive into,

[00:12:04] Someone Is Going to Judge You Anyway

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: one of the things I like to ask everyone who’s on the show is for an unhinged moment in your parenting experience, and it could be with your own kids or with your parents. I know there’s always, it’s always hard to choose from all the possibilities. But give us an unhinged moment so we can all feel a little bit better about our own parenting experience.

Dr. Julie Watson: There’s so many. But I will share the one… I think this influenced me as, as just who I am as a person.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Huh

Dr. Julie Watson: It’s with my mom. And I don’t have a vivid memory of this, but I’ve heard the story so many times that it’s influenced me and I can see it. So when I was one years old my mom said that she put me down in the family room and she went to go take a shower.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Huh

Dr. Julie Watson: The next thing she knew, there was a knock on the door knock, and some stranger down the street was holding me. And they’re like what is wrong with you? Your kid’s running down the street in the middle of winter in their diaper.” And my mom’s like, “Wait, what? What?” And m- my mom hadn’t locked the door.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Oh my gosh

Dr. Julie Watson: And I’ve thought about that, and I have a very complicated relationship with my mom, but I have thought about that moment. And she wanted to take a shower. She thought she’d done everything that she could. And there’s a big and here, and you cannot, you just can’t see everything that’s gonna come out. You just can’t. And there’s always gonna be somebody that judges you. I think what it influenced me is I’ve really held onto this as don’t be stopped by a closed door, and sometimes as parents or as kids, we all just need to run through the streets in our underwear, and that’s okay. Because we can’t… if you just create this very small thing and try to create everything as perfect, it’s never gonna happen. Because at the end of the day, you can try for perfection, but we’re human. We’re gonna fail or we’re gonna have flaws. And I think of that story, I’ve heard it so many times, that it’s really influenced me. Be gentle, be kind. There’ll be always somebody out to get you, but you’re gonna be okay

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah. Yeah, that is crazy. There’s so many funny layers to that since I, know you, who is adventurous and is like, ” I’m gonna do the wild thing.” A lot of kids wouldn’t think to leave the house. and then so interesting about your mom, who just wants to shower. Isn’t that such a… that’s what we want. That’s what we never have time for. And

Dr. Julie Watson: A sh- we, and there’s judgment in taking care of our own needs, and I think that’s something that she just needed to take care of her needs and was judged for it.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah

Dr. Julie Watson: And I would agree. There’s so many layers because if you know me and you know we used to do some fun challenges. If we didn’t do something, we’d have, a, our, the pain thing, and mine was always run around the neighborhood in your pajamas, run around naked, eh, just as a motivator, and I didn’t make that connection till just now. That’s prob- Maybe it stems from one-year-old running through the streets.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: You’ve always wanted to do it secretly. You’ve always…

Dr. Julie Watson: And maybe not so secretly. But yeah, I think that, there’s not, there’s no set way, and I think we do as parents, and it’s really interesting going through this full spectrum aro- across generations, living it and working with them. There’s always somebody who’s going to have a different perspective of what you should and shouldn’t do. And we’re not gonna do it right. Put aside some money for therapy for yourself and your kids. I ask my kids that, “What moments in your life do you feel like I came through on and what didn’t I?” And they’ve told me, and that’s been hard to hear, but it’s also been good. So you can just keep growing with it. We’re not gonna be perfect

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it’s interesting too because you as a therapist probably approach your parenting a little bit differently as well. You are able to, really recognize the whole sharing and repairing and things that needs to happen. Is there something common with people that you have come across in terms of working with their own parents?

[00:16:35] Finding Delight as Our Parents Age

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: I think it’s fascinating to think about how our parents have affected us as people. Even now in midlife, it still comes through. Are there people who are dealing with challenges in their own parent- y- with their own parents?

Dr. Julie Watson: Yeah, I think the thing that I see is this mix of fear, Fear, joy, sadness, nostalgia, and I’m gonna even throw in a little bit of obligation, and that’s not quite the right word, but I hear so many people say, “But I have to do this.” And so we work a lot on what can, what are the aspects of it that maybe make you want to do this? Is there something you want? Is there completion on something that maybe didn’t feel great? Or is there, did you love to play cards? And you can just hold that moment. So we look at that because I do think it, yeah, it gets it can be really challenging, and it can be a space of delight. Yeah, and I think when my dad before, before he passed away, he was in care and he’d had a brain injury, and there was Alzheimer’s. And when I was there, what I had to do was suspend my like, I need to be seen as your daughter, and just delight in this, this man who was whimsical. It was a side of him I’d never seen, and I saw kind of that mischievous side of him. And I actually could see, I bet what I saw what my grandma saw. This, this little, this little kid. But I could see that, that… Not that I saw him as a child, but I saw the energy, and it was such a beautiful moment. And I think we want to capture that with our kids, with ourselves, and with our own parents. And, I think that’s one of the things that has been one of my takeaways the last several years, is to find the delight in the moments.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah. Yeah, that’s so true, ‘ we don’t know how long we have with people. And, people, especially our parents, change and have different needs, and, we are different people, and having that delight and being able to be present with what’s there is, is a good thing. Your own dad was diagnosed with ADHD. How does it manifest as you age? How does it change? Is there something that changes as you age, or is it always showing up in a similar way?

Dr. Julie Watson: Honestly, I think that’s an excellent question and one that hasn’t gotten enough attention. So for me, it was just common to know how he operated in the world, so I didn’t necessarily see that change in him. What I did see when he was in the memory care center was I saw the way he saw the world, and there was this pla- like almost that shiny object type thing. “Oh, this is good. This is good.” And it was really fun to see that unexpected joy, the mischievousness. That’s what I saw the most, but it’s an area I don’t think that there’s been a lot of research in, and I think it’s one that definitely needs it.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Julie Watson: Thanks for the idea, Andrea.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: I know. I know.

Dr. Julie Watson: Great, now I’m gonna go research.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: know you, you don’t need any more ideas on what research to do, or what creepy dolls to buy, or what, you know how it is

[00:20:05] What Happens When You Stop Masking?

Dr. Julie Watson: And I, that’s like really, that’s been on my mind. I will say one of the things I have learned that’s been very validating with, just that validation and the confirmation around ADHD is It’s okay to be weird. We like weird stuff because it’s weird things that gets us excited. And one the things I’ve absolutely loved when I stopped masking, because we mask a lot of this is how we’re supposed to be appropriate,

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Huh I started

Dr. Julie Watson: taking that mask out. My weirdness has come out more, and it’s allowed me to really lean into my artistic side more. I discovered I loved art as a kid, and I wanted to do it, but I was I wanted to throw stuff on walls and break stuff, and that’s not how they taught art in the ’70s and ’80s. I’ve really embraced that part of me, and that’s become a way for me to manage and regulate the, the, the ADHD, the, when I feel overstimulated, when I feel like I don’t focus, I bring it back there, and it almost becomes a meditative process. And I love it. And yes, I do have a collection of creepy dolls now, and they bring me such joy, absolute joy.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah, that’s fun. I love that you are, kinda using that side of you, that creative side, and letting it come out and letting it, just have fun with it and, there’s a lot of things going on here in this apartment that are … I wish I could share with everybody, but there’s I’m staring at a mannequin head right now, so you know,

Dr. Julie Watson: yes.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: that’s

Dr. Julie Watson: ADHD, we sh- sometimes shiny objects, sometimes a hyper-focus, but also if we allow it to be creative and that’s … I would have never seen myself doing this installation, and that’s something that surprised me. And maybe that’s when the validation or getting that diagnosis, you start to see things different. You also open yourself up to different spaces. And

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Huh

Dr. Julie Watson: I think the artistic community, whether it’s comedy, whether it’s visual art, whether it’s music, whether it’s storytelling, gives such a great way to hold you when you haven’t felt held in the world.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: Yeah. Yeah. And I think a number of our comedians in Moms Unhinged have ADHD, I can think of a few. Maybe there’s some- something with that with artistic people and, having that creative outlet is a really good thing,

Dr. Julie Watson: It’s it’s out of the status quo. So you’ll see a lot of restaurateurs, a lot of entertainers a lot of entrepreneurs. Because you have to be able to make quick decisions or stand on your feet or find the humor in something or improv something really quick, and that is something that you learn to really hone. So yeah,

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: yeah. Julie, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and talking about, yeah, t- and hopefully I think someone will definitely learn from this or see themselves reflected in this, be like, “Oh.” Hopefully it is helpful for someone to think, “Oh, maybe I’m not weird, I just have ADHD.”

Dr. Julie Watson: And maybe you are weird and you have ADHD, even better.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: and. Yeah. It’s a both and

Dr. Julie Watson: and both are awesome. And yeah, I think to know that you’re not alone, and like I said, that stat of 61% threw me off ’cause I’m like, “Damn, that’s a lot of us out there.” That’s why I don’t believe in this idea that there is a normal way of being. It’s a full spectrum of however our brain wants to function, and yeah, not alone.

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: So true. I love it.

Dr. Julie Watson: this I love. Thank you so much. This was a really wonderful conversation

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: And why don’t you let people know where they can find you, and we’ll have the link in the show notes.

Dr. Julie Watson: Yeah. So you can find me on the socials at itsjuliewatson, I-T-S juliewatson, or at juliewatson.com

Andrea Marie, Founder Moms Unhinged: All right. Thank you so much Thanks for listening, and make sure you subscribe, share, and follow us on the socials to get more comedy clips